tv Book Discussion on Appomattox CSPAN December 29, 2013 3:45am-4:31am EST
we look forward to seeing you tomorrow. >> next, elizabeth varon recalls robert e. lee's surrender to the ulysses s. grant led union forces said the mclean house on october 9th 101865. this is about 45 minutes. [applause] >> thank you so much for that very, very kind introduction. it's a pleasure to be here. property surrendered u.s. grant
in 1865 which is for most americans a familiar tableau. the two men met your mama central virginia at appomattox courthouse. lee wore a fine dress uniform and vow gentility of the southeasterly. create test crack early and represented the hardscrabble farmers and wage earners had molded in to so formidable a fighting machine. after awkwardly exchanging pleasantries about service in the mexican war, the two men agree to the surrender terms and ended the civil war. in essence, grants term salve for the army of north virginia on there aren't. the promise that they would never again take up arms against the united states. great magnanimity in this relates to the preservation of the labor united the north and south that prepared the way for america's emergence as a world power. this is an edifying story, a comforting one die-cast healing it transcends politics. today i'll tell you an altogether different mathematic
story and suggested what happened here on april 9th 1865 is even more significant and fascinating than we've realized. the surrender was inherently political moment i would set the terms of an unfolding debate about the meetings that the war. leeann grant, consummate leaders both do this in each man move to stake out a position. for the come of surrender was the negotiation of which he secured honorable terms for his blameless man in the peace is contingent on the north's good behavior. the union victory in the sizes one overrated. entrance fee the surrender was sent negotiation. he could be immersed while precisely because he went badly utterly powerless and discredit to his cause. grants terms were designed to affect confederates submission and atonement. for a grant from the union victory was spread over rob and peace is contingent on the south's good behavior. competing granted they did not
crack the surrender terms in isolation it for the appomattox drama unfolded, countrymen and women would crowd the scene and invest with aspirations and dreams and the students included the dream of freedom itself. in the eyes of african-american soldiers and former slaves, more than the union had been vindicated that april day. the surrender was for them. a freedom day, the moment the promise of emancipation was finally fulfilled. i'll propose three distinct understandings is a moment of rest duration. this is the confederate interpretation of vindication liberation took shape within the contending armies on april 9, 1865. i'll suggested the debates over the terms reveal not only the depth of the bitterness between the earth and the vanquished, but deep divisions within each society north and south. so we'll begin with the confederate interpretation. on april 81865 to retrieve bad
to grant in response to green suggestion that the confederate cause is hopeless in that time had come to capitulate. lee wrote, to be frank i do not think the emergency has arisen for the surrendered his army but as the restoration of peace should be the sole object of a desire to know whether proposals would lead to the end. i cannot meet you with a view to the surrender of northern virginia. as far as the restoration of peace, i should be pleased to meet you. using the word restoration price, lee began to elaborate position of an honorable peace. what did he mean by restoration? is a favorite theme of the northern peace democrats who deplored the lincoln administration's conduct of the work, war, particularly i think the man patient and sought to return the union to the way it was the third 1864 campaign slogan. we had hoped in vain the confederate battlefield victories with all the chorus of northern dissent and bring the north to the negotiating table.
please on understanding the distinct from that of the northern democrat and it was rooted in his family culture and that of his native virginia. like many other virginians of his generation, elite bloodlines , leave the state for days of the earlier public. neither states on the stick it for granted to be my leader in felt a proprietary pride in the union. for lee, an honorable peace would restore for the south of prosperity influence of his words. he associated with the case of an imagined past before the nation had drifted away from the principles of the virginia founders. from april 1865 on, restoration would be these political keyword and we see a crop up again and again and again and his postwar correspondent. for example, six months after the surrender, he wrote to matthew fontaine maury, as long as virtue is dominant, so long as the happiness of the people secure. and ever merciful guys give us from destruction and restores to the bright hopes and prospects
of the past. this is a fundamentally backward looking view of the peace. these hopes were restoration or premise not only a nostalgic, but the case this time he was lameness. he elaborated the case in april 10 in his farewell address under the sky by charles marshall. it began after four years of arduous service marked by unsurpassed courage and fortitude the army of northern virginia has been compelled to go to overwhelming recent resources, unquote. confederate church amid steadfast in the continued in contrast satisfaction even in this bitter hour from the consciousness of duty faithfully performed. please address took on an iconic status. it had profound emotional resonance to his starting unexhausted church. the yankee army seemed endless and income are seen. billy's farewell address had layers of meaning and deep tangled roots. for white southerners, the reference to overwhelming numbers and resource this is a sort of code in the context of proslavery ideology of the creed
members conjured up a northern army of mercenaries, seducer coerced into service and having no real taken the fight. resources conjured up images of northern factories and cities in which it exploited underclass is turned material support at the behest of rapacious capitalists. succession is sensing the burgeoning love the population of the north doesn't type of northern society, and social instability and obsession at the bottom line. the addresses reference to the courage and fortitude of the confederate troops as part of parcel of the same in dayton and of the north. defenders of the southern way of life had made a staple of the claim that southern men accustomed to mastery over always her readers are nursed at the northern. lee was well aware of this ideological freight. in a planet union troops had not been equal to the confederate once the essential attributes of and had, his farewell address made a political statement. by denying legitimacy of the north military vic drake,
confederates could tonight and with the right to impose its political will on the defeated south. here at appomattox, we moved on a second front to cast the surrender terms in the best possible light, hoping their paroles could confer a measure of immunity from reprisals at the hands of the federal, lee requested of grant at their april 10 made in on horseback that each individual confederate be issued a printed certificate signed by a union officer is proof that the soldier came under the settlement of april 9. grant readily assented to this request in keeping with the language of the surrender terms match that of the soldier observed the force for he resided, he would not be disturbed. he then imagines the certificates would remind confederates of the obligations attendant upon their status as paroled prisoners of war. but the confederates emphasize the will not be disturbed cause in their eyes from the paroles represented the promise that honorable men would not be treated dishonorably.
in the confederate interpretation from the surrender terms impose conditions on the north. april 20191865 interview with the "new york herald," they want arbitrary urban dig ever read full apologies were adopted by the republican administration from the southerners would the terms reached that would renew the fight. 10 months later testifying before congressional committee, investigating ways of anti-black violence, they defended the policies of andy johnson from which i'd write ex-confederates back to power and again cautioned the north must be restrained and conservative in its approach to reunion or that was the best way for northerners to retain the good opinion of the south. the main point here is this. lee has a reputation in the modern day for having counseled resignation and deceit. but for confederates of the posts were. camellia's 90s humblest admission. instead he was the symbol of an
out pride and measured defiance. confederate civilians imagine the very surrender seem as an in the to korea. a revealing the fanciful report on the conference at the mclean house circulated through confederate newspapers immediately to 65 in which lee offers gripped his sword, but greed refuses to take it. according to the newspaper account cummock returned to his generally, keep that sort. you have not been wiped, but overpowered and i cannot receive it as a token of surrender from so brave a man, a quote. of course, grant never said such things but it assigns the overwrite interpretation. confederates on the holmes wrote of the surrender seem that union officers cheered poorly as they left the mclean house and the rank-and-file yankee dared not utter a single insulting word to the defeated rebels. why were the yankees the victors? aggressively submissive, they
fear the line even ashamed. to your door, confederates not only cannot get him to the overwhelming recent resources interpretation of their defeat, but the sentiments of the address, they invoke the appomattox terms and particularly the will not be disturbed cause is issued against social change and a weapon of them in battle over black civil rights. republican efforts to get the re-people measure of equality and opportunity and protection were met by confederate protest is such a radical agenda was a betrayal of the appomattox term. the prospect of black citizenship is one virginia newspaper put it, the less disturbed side. in short, confederates believed that lee had drawn the line in the sand at appomattox. north carolina poet put it most distinctly. urgent southerners to model good behavior she wrote in the summer of 1866 that lee had quote not stoop to scrimmaged crowd had
one breath to surrender to create. confederates would observe the parole terms, but she insisted an honorable enemy should not desire. it is idle to attempt to force the confederates juice day they were wrong. from the start, this view, this view of things as are some of out of are some of the object of faith in her circle in the vast majority of union soldiers and civilians. it is precisely the admission of wrongdoing in a change of heart that grants offered his defeated those. please rhetoric of restoration help no charm to the new general. grant expressing his support for lincoln in 1864 election has explicitly rejected the equation at peace with restoration of a turning back the clock. he associated such language with defeatism that the democrats in a specter is great but it is a restoration to the south of slaves 30 free. grant also rejected the notion he had been anything negotiated
with lee at appomattox. he had all the cars on april 9, 1865. green felt demeaning to to be unmistakable. hero, never claim to the protein of these prisoners any political rights whatsoever. i thought that was the matter with congress over which i have no control. the general chief commanding army i had to read to stipulate to surrender in terms which the confederate bias. these terms rested on military calculations. great post on april 9, 1865 that should be surrender. other rebel armies would surrender and grandpa to be the thus avoid bushwhacking a continuation of the war. in the interpretation, grant's terms did not set the men free pic technically paroled bubbles were prisoners of war whose freedom is entirely contingent on their good behavior. the surrender was her creative vindication on many levels. restoration is least keyword of
vindication. he was keenly aware of the fact that over the course of the word many northerners in the union army and government press had attributed to the formidable the superhuman qualities as graham put it in his memoirs. written while long the rebel chief was mortal and the surrender vindicated. that knowledge. moreover, grant had long stood by the charge leveled by the antiwar copperhead preston north victory was a merciless butchery. greenfeld undisguised contempt for the stay-at-home traders and antiwar copperhead. now if defeat in france showed lenience that mantle of butcher would fall from credentialed or so last. more than anything the surrender criticizes the triumph of a just cause coming in because of the union. do you use triumph vindicated to rule by majority. the founders believed in a perpetual union. the capacity of citizen soldiers represent a democracy to the conscripts and dukes of an autocratic society. the downfall of the confederacy
on bird in the south slavery, and institution imports while civilized people not brought up under it as graham put it. now the way was open for the unions eat those of moral and material progress and the white southerners to the distant brought from serb serbians slaveholding class how great saw it. grievously the surrender terms what he said the political conversion of the defeated confederate to a creed of democratic self-government of freedom. great did not believe lee and his men to be blameless. he describes the session is a sin in a crime, but he believed for everything there must be achieved atonement and his mercy again was designed to affect that atonement. grant made no concession to the confederates are copperhead fitness terms. his generosity was the generosity of a conqueror whose the jury was total. grimsby of the surrenders in triumph of right over wrong are just as resident and enduring
among northerners as lee's interpretation did among southerners. among the northerners who embrace grants policy of magnanimity were abolitionists of radical republicans, part of the argument of my book as americans across a spectrum embraced magnanimity, but investors very different kind of meanings. he was charged at the time they confederates and copperhead sabbaticals, abolitionist of radical republicans were intent on vengeance against the south. the historical record suggests otherwise. in the eyes of abolitionist such as the influential gold editor, magnanimity with the means to achieve a purpose namely the ascent of the south to emancipation. reporters saw magnanimity as an emblem of their moral authority. superb disc really put the civilization based on three labors of a higher and more humane type are not based on slavery. really continued, i want as many rebels is possible to live to see the south rejuvenated and transferred by the influence of free labor.
but fitter fate for the likes of leap into bear witness to the unfolding social revolution. this is how greeley saw things here at ms since coming northerners who embrace grants term set to the south, we don't want to inflict punishment. we want you to change in confederates responded to demands for change with a form of punishment. this contest over the surrenders meany did not simply pick this up again the north or even the confederacy against the union. instead, it pitted those who have a thorough transformation of the south against those who rejected such transformation. here we have the theme of divisions within each side. the north-south conservatives, peace democrats copperheads were loathed for their political rival of the republican party of lincoln to treat the surrenders of vindication and mandate. these democrats rallied behind the confederate interpretation of appomattox. in their valor, endurance and skill to copperhead neoprobe
insisted southerners were equal to the north to the confederacy was subdued by overwhelming numbers. here's lee's interpretation lock stock and barrel. the south to is divided. by southern unionists opposed confederacy during the war rally behind grant's interpretation and reveled in the fact that the noble grant and his army had broadly sushil. surrender was a vindication for white southerners. americans held markie maher asserted more fervently that the surrender margin of error than african-americans. vivendi victory vindicated the cause of black freedom and racial justice. at appomattox, both liberators had liberated. the last clash of granted me across the virginia countryside from petersburg to appomattox, my stomach tried on april 9 to break free of a federal trap only to find last escape route blocked by black soldiers and the six regiments of the united states colored troops with one another in the wings.
when they heard of lee's capitulation come in black troops knew no bounds. they danced and sang and embraced each other with exuberant joy. the black regiments at appomattox numbering 2000 men in all for a microcosm of black life in america. they included xbase train at kentucky's camp dawson and free blacks at philadelphia's camp william penn. included men who became race leaders in the postwar era searches are not destroying destroyed george washington williams of the baptist editor william demint does the journalistic mentor to none other than ip laws. regardless of their background, the presence of the battlefield with a felt the culmination of a long struggle. if you know, federal or returned with black volunteers, claiming african american men did not possess attributes of patriotism and courage and kept it the worst difficult moment. when you stt regiments got the chance to fight, they proved their mettle with dozens of engagements. the u. s. e. t. a bad appomattox
seemed considerable action. dh survived a bloody initiation into combat in florida february february 1860 for joining the granting warfare of the overland campaign in virginia and then the trenches through the siege of petersburg entering the city in triumph when it fell in april 2nd. african-american soldiers were keenly aware that even after getting all this proof of their courage, their march to a quality could be turned excellent powerful confederate army surrender field. the confederate government viewed soldiers as so many rebellious ways. black soldiers were aware that many white northerners spewed there must does a socialist government, testing capacity of blacks for citizenship in some of those white northerners hoped and expected the experiment within and fail. not surprisingly given the context, black soldiers quickly seized on the u.s. critical role as a vindication. as william macarthur put it at a
may 1865 letter, we the color soldiers are fairly one are loyalty and bravery. thomas worchester correspondent embedded with the army for james reveled in the fact the regiments had participated in the victories came paying they gave lease versus s. trophies to the union army as he put it. many of these white officers and comrades share the conviction that the role in the last battle had indecisive. the cauvery recounted the scene for his mother and sisters in a letter. the morning of the night came to the cauvery was being pushed back rapidly towards the station. the boys were fine, scores of them. over the hill a dark column was spied coming down the road to quicktime. what a relief from the office spent. the colored race of those men so long as they brought relief to espey saw courage and determination in the polls like
faces. moreover, african-american troops understood themselves to be an army of liberation whose defeat of flavors that nailed the coffin the coffin of slavery itself. abundant evidence exists that slaves sought appomattox is a freedom day. it was the very moment of emancipation, the moment the fact to the lincoln's proclamation had long since been passed. virginia saves for the first year the tidings of the surrender of thought on this against a defense. none other than booker t. washington is classic autobiography from slavery remember someone that were closed from the day of freedom came to southwestern virginia. the union officers pleaded reading of the emancipation proclamation at the april surrender had brought the long-awaited moment of deliverance. interviews connect in the 20th century with african-americans who had been slaves in virginia echoes such published reminiscences. danny berry remembers slaves in tamblyn, virginia burst into spontaneous song when they learned the head gabe with the
wi-fi fret that moment she knew they were free. as news of the surrender travel through the south, slaves far away from the events at appomattox six is grants final tribe as the end of their enslavement. for example, james h. johnson of south carolina lamented after president lincoln's freedom proclamation in 1863, the status quo kept unread if it had. there's a limit generally surrendered in his interview that we learned we were free. for some former slaves to date of the surrender structure their very sense of time in history allies of washington told her interviewer conducted by the federal writers object in the new deal agency in the 1930s. unless the washington told her interviewer from the first thing i remember was living with my mother about six miles from crossing american about the year 1866. i know it was 1866 week as it is the year surrender of the surrender was 1865.
at appomattox persistent memory of many say is it was in turn presence of the commemorative calendar of the free people. surrender day festivities began in southern virginia as early as they can 66. blacks and the north carolina border commemorated april 9 because they saw it if they had never been beaten emancipation proclamation would have been to no avail. african-american soldiers pivotal role as agents of liberation would long remain a point of pride within black communities. george washington williams himself a veteran of the appomattox came came noted in his landmark history published in 1883 at appomattox in the last arab slaveholders rebellion the brilliant fighting of black troops have ensured the salvation of the union. the fact that african-american soldiers had defeated lee lent additional symbolic meaning to the surrender for me and his army of northern virginia typified the ice of the u.s. ct slaveholding elites and its racial superiority.
thomas morris chester confederate capitulation was especially sweet cousins are reviewed to the first families of virginia who he do after the virginians. in short, men such as williams and chester made and sustained the bold claim that defeat u.s. army african-american troops have dealt a death blow to all that army stood for, including favorite old. they insisted not only the union armies at jury emanated from superior virtue of the black troops in particular exemplified by virtue. most important, african-american soldiers interpretations of the surrender of described the civil rights message into the mud animist terms of the sprecher, emphasizing the promise of appomattox, depicted the free people and black soldiers in particular as agents of national healing. the williams 1880 history of the troops in the war of the rebellion praised like soldiers for treating the confederates with quiet dignity and christian humility. those were his words.
hero, after the confederate army had been paroled, the troops cheerfully and cordially divided rations of the late enemy and welcomed them at their campfires of march 2 st. petersburg. forgiveness is expressed in the attacks rebel soldiers who freely mingled with the plakon verse. as a spectacle of magnanimity never before witnessed. lien sought, african-american magnanimity at appomattox is the exercise of moral authority come a conscious effort as purposeful as grandson act of clemency to leave to break the cycle of violence the slaveholders had so long perpetuated. in the year after the surrender, each of the interpretations about the income emphasis on restoration from a vindication of liberation aquinas and others came to incorporate an argument about the last promise of appomattox. adherents of each interpretation argued their political opponents had betrayed the true spirit of green's magnanimity.
everyone embraces magnanimity, but they invest with different meanings. for lee and his followers from the radical republicans for the arch betrayers that the appomattox covenant for imposing a regime and black suffrage in political representation that contravene the promise and parole terms of southerners would not be disturbed. for granted and his followers coming into johnson was the arch betrayers were capitulating to these ideas that the piece must bring the restoration of power to southerners. confronted with the foolhardiness of the far too lenient johnson and planets of the southern people to their own interest, grant had adapted. he would write, i gradually worked up to the point where i see the immediate enfranchisement for african-americans. this is the only way to dispel the confederates pretension they would be able to control the nation and were entitled to do so as he put it. grant was deeply disappointed by lee's refusal to give that the cursor do.
in a may 1866 interview, cryptically to pass, saintly was he hating badly. setting an example of source acquiesces so grudging and pernicious in its effect as to hardly be realized. representative lee for denigrating the union victory is a mere show of force and encouraging confederates to resist changing the name of restoration. grant learned after appomattox said he would need to enter the political arena to finish the work he began in april 191865. hindi has african-americans, not only those who rejected black citizenship of right, but those who during the long retreat from reconstruction would give up the fight for it, all of these people at the moment of promise at the appomattox moment state unfulfilled. however compelling and comforting the image of the surrender is a gentleman's agreement if he doesn't begin to capture the complex legacy of appomattox peer deep into the 19
century, appomattox is at the heart of the politics of race reunion and that's why it's so important people come here and walk the national park to visit the museum and try to understand its artifacts that we can recover and appreciate that this moment meant in that turbulent era of the civil war. thank you. [applause] >> dear sometime? >> yeah, sure. i'm happy to take any questions people have. >> i knew i could count on you. yes, sir. [inaudible] >> in your view, what changed in what didn't change because of
lincoln's assassination? >> is a great question anyone who knows civil war literature does the assassination when we get the impression of books on shelves of libraries and bookstores, the assassination eclipses the surrender. scores of books on the assassination of very few on the surrender. there's been an assumption that's gone on with the notion the assassination surrender but at that moment the northern impulse to magnanimity evaporates under his calls for vengeance. the drowning of the imposter's magnanimity. i found something quite different. northerners are absolutely embittered by the assassination and we do see calls for vengeance against those who perpetrated it. but we see a calling response. we see some northerners say we have been too lenient. lincoln would've been too lenient. grant was too lenient. now johnson, they initially believe is going to be an
enforcer of richard duchenne inventions. johnson is the right man to correct our course. but we see just as many people saying, upholding the notion of magnanimity and the idea of magnanimity confers moral authority and is an emblem of its moral superiority. we see just as many sticking with the argument but let's not make of these people. let's stick with what lincoln wanted, bp is characterized by lenient than the union are the best rates one of lincoln's memory is to uphold the spirit of the magnanimity. i find this interpretive lines hold. there's a sort of moment of uncertainty. to a surprising degree, they hold. the other thing i found is we know john wilkes booth was in the audience when lincoln gives his less famous speech in which he gestures he made it back black suffrage and modern day say well, booth at this moment
since i'm going to run lincoln through and this is a lashing out against the possibility of black civil rights. all of that's true, but americans at the time is they receive the news of lincoln's assassination didn't know about the details. so what they assumed was the assassination was a response to the surrender. who's had been infuriated by the south's defeat and he was lashing out against lincoln to rob lincoln of the fruits of his victory. what happened here at appomattox is the context for the assassination in the eyes of almost all northerners. if a site of that. the connection between the surrender of the assassination. they believe booth was trying to undo the union victory at that moment. any other questions? comments? >> knowing there's talented leaders in the room. would you want to revive that in some way?
something that would fit on a billboard? >> i mean, i think again the myth that the gentleman's agreement between grant and lee is a compelling one and not one that doesn't have merit. it was a great achievement for these two men to end the war. i would like to say parent radically, sometimes people these days we'll talk about a long civil war and appomattox didn't win the war. effectively, appomattox ends the civil war. there are surrenders to come. yes armies in the field, but what happened after appomattox is not going to revive hopes were confederate independence. they die here at appomattox. it is the effective end of the civil war and a great achievement to end the war. this notion of a narrative about a gentleman's agreement exists from the very start and even some of these editors like really who were arguing about
the terms. there's an air self-congratulation that america ended at civil war and away no country is ever done so before. the gentleman's agreement is rooted in american exceptionalism, how remarkable we are able to end our war without massive executions and reprisals. across the spectrum that impulse to self-congratulation says president, even among people who than express will argue about what the terms really meant. my argument here is nothing that will set clearly on a billboard. i don't think one has to throw out the old billboard so much as remember that the surrender was controversial. how could it not be? 700,000 men have lost their lives. the road to true reconciliation was a very, very difficult one. i think to appreciate the meaning of the surrender who lived at this time, we have to
remember they let j-juliett grant, the most prestigious men in the country aside from lincoln and after lincoln dies, the two most prestigious men. southerners in northerners look to these meant to represent their respective causes from which so many people lay down their lives in pieces they had in war. they didn't expect these meant to be ends in defeat. they sell them as clients and assumed that's what they would continue to be. part of my argument is land-grant our enemies. how could it be otherwise? it doesn't detract from the achievement of having brought the worst we close. but reminds us these terms down to the cause we don't want to be disturbed and if you disturb us come you broken the covenant. these terms are controversial. i think again sometimes some people are trying to debunk the myth, they tell you something you thought was of greater importance is not as greater importance he thought. my purpose is opposite to say it's even more important to say what happens here says the terms for an unfolding debate that we
have appreciated. yeah. [inaudible] >> yes, yes. [inaudible] >> i think that's right. really for me, the most surprising discovery of all was et al., with web relish the anti-republican democrats, those copperheads just adopted the confederate bob things. it just shows you how the instant impulse to politicize this. my argument if there is never a moment in which northerners and not celebrate grants victory and not very moment when confederates en masse are southerners lament please
defeat. it's political from the very start. this has to do them part with the price. what did the traces his followers and here come the campaign, meeting of the clean house from promulgation of the farewell address. i show what happens in the news hits the wires and lands in northern cities and communities and lands in southern cities in the impulse to spin the news is instantaneous for political rivals to try to use it to political advantage. it happens instantly and shows divisions within a society, not just between them. [inaudible] what you are saying is a great, robbery between the usct and everyone sending -- [inaudible] begin with each other -- >> that is not.
and that was a quote from a postwar race history by george washington williams. the context for these -- african-americans clinked the idea that the surrender is a special moment for them. a moment which they are in the thick terser old in which they are dispensing magnanimity. the context for that is a very long-standing charge that goes back as far as we can trace debates about slavery but if you have emancipation come you're going to have chaos and reprisals and for williams to highlight, i think his account there is somewhat wishful. but it served a political purpose to highlight the possibility of racial record deletion and say that appomattox could symbolize racial reconciliation with an answer to all those who sent us this freedom in the victory, there's going to be social chaos, resource the one. williams wanted to allow himself with the forces of progress and civilization and to have decided
to magnanimity of african-american at that moment was to do that and offer counter narrative to a dystopian discourse about what would happen if you had read in the union to jury. yes. [inaudible] >> yep, that's right. i don't have a figure they are. really, this is a moment at which they're essentially, you know, the way it's described by sherry dan and others is that we and his men thought the might have achieved a breakthrough moment by scattering the union calvary. when they see the infantry en masse in en masse in those woods committee realize their hopes were breakthrough failed.
so is the presence of the african-american troops in the sight of union reinforcements that causes the way flex to start going out. indeed, it would be in at the grant and an african-american postwar discourse that black troops fired the shot at lee's army. that is technically not true. but again, it served a purpose in it served a purpose to say we are within the thick or circle and we hope to bring to shield this army that symbolized everything, that symbolizes the very regime that slavery and of the elite. again, to get back to john's question, part of what i'm arguing is that literally happened here is fascinating. i talk about the campaign in a lot of detail, but i'm trying to argue appomattox is a much richer symbols and we've realize. it wasn't just a symbol of victory and defeat in
vindication of restoration and liberation. functioning on office many levels. [inaudible] >> it was 116, the 27, the 145th. it's all in the book. you got it, good. [inaudible] >> yeah, and one of the regiment waited in the waiting. as one of the marchers and discoveries for me is how many of the men in those armies, not the officers and leaders of the army and later became prominent in referred back to the service very proudly. george washington williams is the most important african-american intellectual of this postwar period and he he was there and he considered it very, vr